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Numbers matching



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paj66

Club Member

Thu 22 Feb 18 18:00

Numbers matching


Looking for guidance on how to check whether I have a "numbers matching" car - any expert advice please?! It's a 1960 C1.

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5 USA

Club Member

Thu 22 Feb 18 21:52

Re: Numbers matching


Many classic car buyers, sellers, and owners bandy this term around as if there were some magic number on every component that enables us to tell if the carburetor is original to the engine, which is original to the transmission, which is original to the rear end, which is original to the chassis, which is original to the body. Unfortunately, this magic number does not exist.

Let’s look at a 1967 427/435 Corvette. If the car were entirely original, the engine number and transmission number would match the last six digits of the cars VIN (vehicle identification number). If the car was represented as being “matching numbers,” would a potential buyer be entitled to expect that all of these numbers match? Some would say yes, and others might say that only the engine number needs to match.

But what about the rear end, carburetor, distributor, alternator, intake and exhaust manifolds, cylinder heads, and a multitude of other items that have part numbers and casting codes? These numbers never matched the individual cars VIN, but would indicate if they were used on a 1967 Corvette. What if these numbers on our make-believe car indicate that these parts were never used on a 1967 Corvette? Is this no longer a “matching numbers car?”

But wait! What about the “paint codes” and “trim codes” that are indicated on the “Trim Tag”? Do these need to match the exterior color and interior color of the car? Lets not forget about the “date codes” on all of the glass and the mirrors. The list of potential numbers goes on and on.

This is why it is so important for a buyer and a seller to clarify exactly what “matching numbers” means to them. In general (and I’m sure I’ll get angry letters about this), the more expensive the car, the more numbers should match.

In summary it's a minefield and all the usual "caveat emptor" warnings apply.

https://www.newsday.com/classifieds/cars/classic-car-matchin...


--------------------
The Stingray has landed!

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roscobbc

Committee Member

Thu 22 Feb 18 23:20

Re: Numbers matching


If anyone is really serious about maintaining authenticity of their Corvette and joining-up with like minded people you should consider the NCRS. They have all the documentation available for you to check the correct part no's and date codes of all mechanical parts of the vehicle and regularly have 'workshops' validating members cars. http://www.ncrsuk.com/


--------------------
CCCUK Chairman
'68 coupe - 4 speed - 3.08 - 489 cu in - 570 bhp @ 5850 rpm - 606 ft/lbs torque (821 Newton Metres) @ 3850 rpm
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roppa440

Club Member

Fri 23 Feb 18 08:51

Re: Numbers matching


5 USA wrote (View Post):Many classic car buyers, sellers, and owners bandy this term around as if there were some magic number on every component that enables us to tell if the carburetor is original to the engine, which is original to the transmission, which is original to the rear end, which is original to the chassis, which is original to the body. Unfortunately, this magic number does not exist.

The term "Numbers Matching" comes from the Mopar world. Because on Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouths you can match the body shell to the engine and trans. Most of the parts are date coded too. and the "fender tag" gives you all the option codes which, when you know what you are doing, tell you as much about what shouldn't be on the car as it does about what should be.

But with all other manufacturers it is not that straight forward as you say.

It works the other way too because you often see Mopars described as having a "frame off" (or "off frame") restoration. Pretty hard to do with a unibody......

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kentvette

Club Member

Fri 23 Feb 18 09:47

Re: Numbers matching


As one of the founding members of the UK Chapter of NCRS, I'm with Ross on this! Thumbs up

The NCRS has a huge wealth of information and experience with the "solid axle" cars and any and all questions can undoubtedly be answered.

That would also go for your question about a replacement or re-furbed steering box by the way.

I belive that the early cars were "numbered" differntly from say, my '78. By then the enghine and VIN were "related" with same numbers included. All the ancilleries and items like carbs, distributor, trans, differential, even down to brake back plates, were numbered to include a manufacture date. While not directly linked to each chassis or VIN, it is possible to establish if the parts are likley to be original by the manufacture date, which has to be within certain times of the final assembly, which the trim tag will detail.

Quite what is marked and how on a "solid axle" I don't know! Rolling Eyes


--------------------
Stephen J Irons
CCCUK Lifetime Member
Corvette Club France
Corvettes of Southern California
NCM Family Member
Stephen & June's Web Site
Red Corvettes Have More Fun!

Apple IS Genisys!
The "Born-Again Greenies" are killing the planet! It's time to wake up and smell the rain-forest burning!

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paj66

Club Member

Fri 23 Feb 18 11:39

Re: Numbers matching


Thank you guys. I was aware that the answer was not as straightforward as the question. I'll contact the NCRS. I guess really I'd just like to know if the chasis, engine block and transmission match up. Whether that increases the value of the car is only relevant for insurance purposes

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Tom Moss

Club Member

Fri 02 Mar 18 21:40

Re: Numbers matching Message Icon


As Treasurer and Vice chairman of the NCRSUK chapter I would strongly advise you to join. You will learn valuable information from other members in the club and we have members across this country and in other country's.
I have 2 C1's (59 and 62) and have compiled a great deal of information about them during almost 40 years of ownership.If you would like to discuss anything C1 you can contact me via my e-mail address (tmoss@pembrook.co.uk)
With regards to you question you would be able to tell if the engine and gearbox are from a 60 by the numbers however the chassis does not bear a stamped number that will date it. Numbers were stencilled onto the outer rail of the chassis but this would wear off over the years. Unlike the C2 cars there is no trim Tag so you can't confirm the original interior colour.
Send me an e-mail and I give you my contact details or sent me yours.
If you let me have the numbers that you need checking I can do that for you. :scratchchi


--------------------
Tom Moss

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